Weatherproof electrical floor box? Or similar?
May 1, 2024 9:53 PM Subscribe
I need a weatherproof electrical box, ideally a floor box, which can contain MALE plugs. Everything I've found thus far is for female GFCI outlets. I need the flip side version -- I'm thinking about running what is, effectively, an armored "extension cord" under a deck, to a remote point where it can power a piece of outdoor equipment (15A or less).
For reasons of safety, what I am considering is this:
- Existing weatherproof GFCI wall-mounted armored housing (female receptacle)
- ..... connecting to a short extension cord (male at GFCI, to female)
- male plug sitting inside a NEW weatherproof housing
- ..... connecting to an armored cable (probably Southwire LiquidTight) that runs below a near-grade deck
- weatherproof armored outlet housing mounted to remote corner of deck
- ..... where a piece of equipment may be occasionally plugged in
The concept is to avoid permanent wiring into the household power; simply plugging & unplugging the very short extension cord acts instead of a switch, and means the remote equipment can be completely disconnected. Remove that extension cord, and everything past it is unpowered, no questions asked.
Most versions (Arnev, for example) of this equipment assumes a female receptacle at the (new) weatherproof housing, which in turn would require a "suicide cable" which I am not willing to use.
Armored exterior-grade cabling is permitted in my jurisdiction, if rated for wet environments (rain and rodents are the concern). UF-B is also allowed, but I'm paranoid and generally prefer to over-engineer. I am aware of neighbors simply snaking an outdoor extension cord along the ground and calling it a day, but I am more, um, enthusiastic than that when it comes to safety and durability.
The floor mount would be a nice addition and very convenient from a structural engineering perspective, but I can go with a wall-mount as long as it's relatively shallow depth (the nearest non-structural wall surface is part of a step, where there's only 6" of depth behind the step to a non-movable mass of concrete). Most of the waterproof Leviton plugs I've seen require greater depth that would be available.
For reasons of safety, what I am considering is this:
- Existing weatherproof GFCI wall-mounted armored housing (female receptacle)
- ..... connecting to a short extension cord (male at GFCI, to female)
- male plug sitting inside a NEW weatherproof housing
- ..... connecting to an armored cable (probably Southwire LiquidTight) that runs below a near-grade deck
- weatherproof armored outlet housing mounted to remote corner of deck
- ..... where a piece of equipment may be occasionally plugged in
The concept is to avoid permanent wiring into the household power; simply plugging & unplugging the very short extension cord acts instead of a switch, and means the remote equipment can be completely disconnected. Remove that extension cord, and everything past it is unpowered, no questions asked.
Most versions (Arnev, for example) of this equipment assumes a female receptacle at the (new) weatherproof housing, which in turn would require a "suicide cable" which I am not willing to use.
Armored exterior-grade cabling is permitted in my jurisdiction, if rated for wet environments (rain and rodents are the concern). UF-B is also allowed, but I'm paranoid and generally prefer to over-engineer. I am aware of neighbors simply snaking an outdoor extension cord along the ground and calling it a day, but I am more, um, enthusiastic than that when it comes to safety and durability.
The floor mount would be a nice addition and very convenient from a structural engineering perspective, but I can go with a wall-mount as long as it's relatively shallow depth (the nearest non-structural wall surface is part of a step, where there's only 6" of depth behind the step to a non-movable mass of concrete). Most of the waterproof Leviton plugs I've seen require greater depth that would be available.
If I understand you correctly, you have a remote outlet for which switching just the hot is insufficient — you want to simultaneously disconnect the hot, neutral, and ground such that in the off position the remote outlet is complete separated from your AC service. You are proposing to use a very short extension cord as your switch, where removing the extension cord is the "off position." This sounds like a bad idea. Is there a reason you can't use an outdoor rated 3-pole non-fusible switch?
posted by RichardP at 11:12 PM on May 1 [3 favorites]
posted by RichardP at 11:12 PM on May 1 [3 favorites]
I am not at all across US electrical anything
but this is how theatre and gallery lighting patch systems work, though they tend to be inside. Searching in that direction may help you.
Continue to avoid suicide leads.
posted by deadwax at 3:46 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
but this is how theatre and gallery lighting patch systems work, though they tend to be inside. Searching in that direction may help you.
Continue to avoid suicide leads.
posted by deadwax at 3:46 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
Do you actually need outlets proper, or do you just need weatherproof mountable electrical connection boxes where you can simply connect the cables? I think I have something very similar to what you describe set up for my grill, which is across my deck from the nearest outlet, but it's just two weatherproof boxes for the connection points.
posted by eschatfische at 6:02 AM on May 2
posted by eschatfische at 6:02 AM on May 2
Response by poster: The "Shore Power" concept hadn't occurred to me, and looks to be an interesting direction!
(and, unusually, the Amazon "sponsored product" results are equally interesting for once)
posted by aramaic at 7:02 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
(and, unusually, the Amazon "sponsored product" results are equally interesting for once)
posted by aramaic at 7:02 AM on May 2 [1 favorite]
Do not ever buy any receptacles/plugs/connectors/fixtures/etc from Amazon.
Go to your local hardware store, big box retailer, or electrical supplier instead.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:17 AM on May 2 [3 favorites]
Go to your local hardware store, big box retailer, or electrical supplier instead.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:17 AM on May 2 [3 favorites]
Why not just use a double pole switch (one that breaks both line and neutral) to turn on and off the outdoor outlet? I don't see why you would also need to break the ground, since it is connected to the ground already. You can get double pole switches in the regular switch form factor and for little money. There is such a thing as as a three pole switch (used for three phase motors), but that would be weird to use to break the ground.
Using an extension cord as a switch sounds a lot more complicated than just using a double pole switch.
posted by ssg at 8:43 AM on May 2
Using an extension cord as a switch sounds a lot more complicated than just using a double pole switch.
posted by ssg at 8:43 AM on May 2
If you do end up going with a shore power inlet, mount it in a weatherproof wall-mounted box with the power inlet facing downward rather than floor-mounting it. Those inlets do have a weatherproof cover but it can only close when they're empty. A floor-mounted inlet that will fill up with rain when a cord is plugged into it is horribly unsafe.
posted by flabdablet at 8:59 AM on May 2
posted by flabdablet at 8:59 AM on May 2
What is the equipment you're trying to power? Does it already have a corded plug?
What are the "for reasons of safety"? Are you just trying to avoid having the equipment plug into an extension cord end that's sitting loose on the ground? Are you trying to avoid this connection getting wet?
I am aware of neighbors simply snaking an outdoor extension cord along the ground and calling it a day, but I am more, um, enthusiastic than that when it comes to safety and durability.
What are the disadvantages to just running an outdoor extension cord that would be solved by doing this? Are you really trying to improve safety and durability, or are you just trying to be "classy" by having a permanently fixed outlet for the equipment to plug into instead of having to grab an extension cord off the ground?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:04 AM on May 2
What are the "for reasons of safety"? Are you just trying to avoid having the equipment plug into an extension cord end that's sitting loose on the ground? Are you trying to avoid this connection getting wet?
I am aware of neighbors simply snaking an outdoor extension cord along the ground and calling it a day, but I am more, um, enthusiastic than that when it comes to safety and durability.
What are the disadvantages to just running an outdoor extension cord that would be solved by doing this? Are you really trying to improve safety and durability, or are you just trying to be "classy" by having a permanently fixed outlet for the equipment to plug into instead of having to grab an extension cord off the ground?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:04 AM on May 2
Remember: over-complicating an electrical connection reduces safety.
I'm not an electrician, but I'd pay extra close attention to what the code has to say about shore power. The moment you have a fixed outlet, you have to account for for all the possible scenarios where someone mistakes it for a directly-wired in outlet, like plugging a power strip into it. This is the reason why shore power cords are pretty beefy. You can say that you're never going to plug anything in with a high draw, but an inspector will not take your word for it.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:11 AM on May 2
I'm not an electrician, but I'd pay extra close attention to what the code has to say about shore power. The moment you have a fixed outlet, you have to account for for all the possible scenarios where someone mistakes it for a directly-wired in outlet, like plugging a power strip into it. This is the reason why shore power cords are pretty beefy. You can say that you're never going to plug anything in with a high draw, but an inspector will not take your word for it.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:11 AM on May 2
Response by poster: To clarify a few points:
- the items being powered will, variably, be LED lights, a propane grill ignitor, a pellet smoker (2-3x/year) and maybe a laser projector once or twice a year. At any one time load will be sub-15A.
- there is a reason to avoid hardwiring with a switch -- if I hardwire to the house, I need to pull a building permit AND an electrical permit, complete with electrical survey (which may, in turn, trigger additional "upgrades" like being required to install occupancy sensors in the bathrooms). By using the extension cord gimmick, the entire thing is now considered an "accessory" because it is not permanently connected.
- the problem with an extension cord is the tripping hazard; it will go straight across an occupied area (if anything is plugged in, people are out there, and the cord has to run across where they'll be moving). If I put the extension cord below the deck, it will not be accessible for inspection and is liable to be eaten by rodents (although obviously I'm installing a variety of meshes etc. to try to keep the bastards out). An armored cable (or conduit) is required anywhere inspection can't be performed.
- if I raise the deck high enough for a person to get underneath (so that the wire can be inspected) I could use UF-B cabling -- but then I trigger a building permit again (since the deck surface would be >12" above grade). The deck is currently being built (by me).
- while I don't technically need to be entirely weatherproof (since the whole circuit, when connected, is protected by a GFCI), and the various appliances (listed above) would not be used during the rain anyhow, I do still prefer to make things durable.
...so, basically, I'm trying to (legally) dance between loopholes in the building code while keeping things overengineered (for example, I'm building my deck entirely out of 2x8 spaced 12", using burial-rated wood rather than just rot-resistant, etc.). Plenty of people around here simply ignore the building codes, but I prefer to work within the letter of the law by using their existing loopholes (deck below a certain height, deck not connected to any other structure, nothing hardwired to existing wiring, etc.) Professional quotes for this deck, believe it or not, ranged between 18-24K for plain cedar without wiring which is why I'm aiming to do it myself).
The construction universe here is full of these weird gimmick loopholes (like how I could flatten a house and build a new one as long as I preserve one original wall -- now it's a "renovation" not new construction, and I am therefore allowed to skip public design review).
posted by aramaic at 11:41 AM on May 2
- the items being powered will, variably, be LED lights, a propane grill ignitor, a pellet smoker (2-3x/year) and maybe a laser projector once or twice a year. At any one time load will be sub-15A.
- there is a reason to avoid hardwiring with a switch -- if I hardwire to the house, I need to pull a building permit AND an electrical permit, complete with electrical survey (which may, in turn, trigger additional "upgrades" like being required to install occupancy sensors in the bathrooms). By using the extension cord gimmick, the entire thing is now considered an "accessory" because it is not permanently connected.
- the problem with an extension cord is the tripping hazard; it will go straight across an occupied area (if anything is plugged in, people are out there, and the cord has to run across where they'll be moving). If I put the extension cord below the deck, it will not be accessible for inspection and is liable to be eaten by rodents (although obviously I'm installing a variety of meshes etc. to try to keep the bastards out). An armored cable (or conduit) is required anywhere inspection can't be performed.
- if I raise the deck high enough for a person to get underneath (so that the wire can be inspected) I could use UF-B cabling -- but then I trigger a building permit again (since the deck surface would be >12" above grade). The deck is currently being built (by me).
- while I don't technically need to be entirely weatherproof (since the whole circuit, when connected, is protected by a GFCI), and the various appliances (listed above) would not be used during the rain anyhow, I do still prefer to make things durable.
...so, basically, I'm trying to (legally) dance between loopholes in the building code while keeping things overengineered (for example, I'm building my deck entirely out of 2x8 spaced 12", using burial-rated wood rather than just rot-resistant, etc.). Plenty of people around here simply ignore the building codes, but I prefer to work within the letter of the law by using their existing loopholes (deck below a certain height, deck not connected to any other structure, nothing hardwired to existing wiring, etc.) Professional quotes for this deck, believe it or not, ranged between 18-24K for plain cedar without wiring which is why I'm aiming to do it myself).
The construction universe here is full of these weird gimmick loopholes (like how I could flatten a house and build a new one as long as I preserve one original wall -- now it's a "renovation" not new construction, and I am therefore allowed to skip public design review).
posted by aramaic at 11:41 AM on May 2
> "suicide cable" which I am not willing to use
But your hot outlet with male plugs is creating a "suicide outlet".
posted by LoveHam at 1:25 PM on May 2
But your hot outlet with male plugs is creating a "suicide outlet".
posted by LoveHam at 1:25 PM on May 2
But your hot outlet with male plugs is creating a "suicide outlet".
It doesn't, because the male plug outlet cannot be energized when it isn't plugged in, so there is no risk to touching the prongs.
posted by ssg at 2:49 PM on May 2 [1 favorite]
It doesn't, because the male plug outlet cannot be energized when it isn't plugged in, so there is no risk to touching the prongs.
posted by ssg at 2:49 PM on May 2 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Given the information in your latest comment, I'd recommend a 15A power inlet (note that this is wet rated only when closed) mounted in a deep weatherproof outlet box.
posted by RichardP at 4:07 PM on May 2
posted by RichardP at 4:07 PM on May 2
Response by poster: Thanks all! I'm currently planning to use a weathertight RV plug (akin to one linked above, but with a better sealed cap dealie) mounted into the *side* of a step (below an overhang), with an additional Delrin plate and additional rubber gasket on the back side for stability (rather than using self-tapping screws as supplied by the mfr, the Delrin plate means I can use stainless machine bolts with washers & nuts on the back side, thereby compressing the rubber gaskets from both sides).
The weatherproof cable from that plug will enter a water-tight junction box where it will be spliced to THWN cabling which will then run through PVC conduit (since that can be permanently chemically sealed at all junctions/entrances) which will then run to a weather-tight "in-use" outlet box mounted in an inconspicuous location at a back corner of the deck. All receptacles are GFCIs.
I might wrap the PVC conduit in an unpleasant mesh just to be extra-extra-sure about rodents but I may be heading down a rabbit hole on that given there aren't really that many rodents about, just the occasional vagrant one seen at night.
posted by aramaic at 4:22 PM on May 5
The weatherproof cable from that plug will enter a water-tight junction box where it will be spliced to THWN cabling which will then run through PVC conduit (since that can be permanently chemically sealed at all junctions/entrances) which will then run to a weather-tight "in-use" outlet box mounted in an inconspicuous location at a back corner of the deck. All receptacles are GFCIs.
I might wrap the PVC conduit in an unpleasant mesh just to be extra-extra-sure about rodents but I may be heading down a rabbit hole on that given there aren't really that many rodents about, just the occasional vagrant one seen at night.
posted by aramaic at 4:22 PM on May 5
Given that safety is your guiding principle, don't forget about trip hazards caused by plugging this arrangement's feeder cable into the RV inlet on your step. I have taken a tumble down our own deck's stairs and it wasn't fun at all.
posted by flabdablet at 7:41 PM on May 5
posted by flabdablet at 7:41 PM on May 5
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posted by aramaic at 9:58 PM on May 1