Protecting an elderly person against scammers
April 11, 2024 11:16 AM Subscribe
Our elderly father lives alone. A fast-talking door-to-door salesman confused him to the point that he signed a contract without knowing what it was. Afterwards he didn’t even remember signing it. How can he be protected from this in the future?
Is there any way to make it illegal to make a contract with a vulnerable person without the presence of their designated family member? We need an idea of what options might exist for protecting vulnerable people, in order to prepare our dad for talking to a lawyer.
We don’t think there’s anything we can do about the recent episode, but we’re very worried about what will happen in the future. He’s doing fine with taking care of himself in other ways, with an aide visiting him three afternoons a week, and his daughter paying his bills for him, but if he is overloaded with a lot of confusing talk, he can’t think. His judgment is not what it used to be. I am sure scammers know this and look for elderly people to prey upon.
Is the only option, for preventing future major situations, to have him legally declared incompetent? If he were to give a financial power of attorney to his two children, would he still be just as able to unintentionally sign a contract he doesn’t want, without their presence? Can a person declare himself to be incompetent?
(In the recent episode, he thought he was agreeing to have a few tree limbs trimmed; instead it was the total removal of a beautiful tree that he didn’t actually want cut down, for a hugely excessive price. I have seen the contract and that is indeed his signature, although he has no memory of signing it or even seeing it. He wouldn’t have been able to read the fine print anyway. The subcontractor who did the actual work was not the fast-talker who forced the contract signing. He told the fast-talker that he couldn’t make any decisions without his daughter or son, but the fast-talker somehow got him to sign anyway.)
You are not my lawyer, and I am not asking for legal advice, but it would be very helpful for me to know in advance what are the possibilities to ask a lawyer for, in this sort of situation. He lives in the state of Maryland. He does not want an aide coming full-time, and he very much does not want to move to assisted living.
A friend suggested posting a sign by both the front and the back door, saying, “ Any contract signed by members of this household will not be honored unless co-signed by”, with the names of his two children. Another friend said that would be like a sign saying “vulnerable person lives here!”
Is there any way to make it illegal to make a contract with a vulnerable person without the presence of their designated family member? We need an idea of what options might exist for protecting vulnerable people, in order to prepare our dad for talking to a lawyer.
We don’t think there’s anything we can do about the recent episode, but we’re very worried about what will happen in the future. He’s doing fine with taking care of himself in other ways, with an aide visiting him three afternoons a week, and his daughter paying his bills for him, but if he is overloaded with a lot of confusing talk, he can’t think. His judgment is not what it used to be. I am sure scammers know this and look for elderly people to prey upon.
Is the only option, for preventing future major situations, to have him legally declared incompetent? If he were to give a financial power of attorney to his two children, would he still be just as able to unintentionally sign a contract he doesn’t want, without their presence? Can a person declare himself to be incompetent?
(In the recent episode, he thought he was agreeing to have a few tree limbs trimmed; instead it was the total removal of a beautiful tree that he didn’t actually want cut down, for a hugely excessive price. I have seen the contract and that is indeed his signature, although he has no memory of signing it or even seeing it. He wouldn’t have been able to read the fine print anyway. The subcontractor who did the actual work was not the fast-talker who forced the contract signing. He told the fast-talker that he couldn’t make any decisions without his daughter or son, but the fast-talker somehow got him to sign anyway.)
You are not my lawyer, and I am not asking for legal advice, but it would be very helpful for me to know in advance what are the possibilities to ask a lawyer for, in this sort of situation. He lives in the state of Maryland. He does not want an aide coming full-time, and he very much does not want to move to assisted living.
A friend suggested posting a sign by both the front and the back door, saying, “ Any contract signed by members of this household will not be honored unless co-signed by”, with the names of his two children. Another friend said that would be like a sign saying “vulnerable person lives here!”
What I have done for the past 20 years is to say, "I need a night and a day to think this over first. Can you leave the contract and your contact information with me, and either come back to collect the signed contract or call me tomorrow to get my decision?"
If a salesperson is pushy, they don't get my money. If a salesperson or a company won't give me time to read, absorb, ask questions, etc. they don't get my money.
But for someone like your dad who has slight memory problems, brookeb's suggestion to find and ask a good elder lawyer about your various options sounds like a good one.
posted by Tailkinker to-Ennien at 11:48 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
If a salesperson is pushy, they don't get my money. If a salesperson or a company won't give me time to read, absorb, ask questions, etc. they don't get my money.
But for someone like your dad who has slight memory problems, brookeb's suggestion to find and ask a good elder lawyer about your various options sounds like a good one.
posted by Tailkinker to-Ennien at 11:48 AM on April 11 [1 favorite]
Yes, you need an elder law attorney asap. In the meantime, these are topics you'll likely be discussing with that attorney:
Does a durable power of attorney exist? If yes, who has the power to act as POA? If not, it's time to set one up.
Has a physician ever diagnosed your dad with dementia or any other condition that might render him unable to make major life decisions? It happens, and it's been useful in my family in a similar situation.
Does your dad still drive? Do all his own banking and bill paying? Acquire his own food and prepare his own meals? If not, who does?
I personally would not post a sign indicating that a vulnerable person is alone inside the house.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 11:53 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
Does a durable power of attorney exist? If yes, who has the power to act as POA? If not, it's time to set one up.
Has a physician ever diagnosed your dad with dementia or any other condition that might render him unable to make major life decisions? It happens, and it's been useful in my family in a similar situation.
Does your dad still drive? Do all his own banking and bill paying? Acquire his own food and prepare his own meals? If not, who does?
I personally would not post a sign indicating that a vulnerable person is alone inside the house.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 11:53 AM on April 11 [3 favorites]
Power of attorney does not ordinarily take the authority to sign contracts away from the person granting the power of attorney, so I think that's a no-go.
If you've reached the point where he's being significantly predated upon, I think it is time to consider a conservatorship/guardianship, unfortunately. It may sting the dignity but will extend his ability to remain at home. Just be aware that this will probably require real work on the part of the guardian/conservator, as you can't restrict it to "only likely abusive contracts."
P.S. While this will most likely not help your dad, please do report the company to your state AG. They only tend to find out about these problems through consumer complaints.
posted by praemunire at 12:01 PM on April 11 [9 favorites]
If you've reached the point where he's being significantly predated upon, I think it is time to consider a conservatorship/guardianship, unfortunately. It may sting the dignity but will extend his ability to remain at home. Just be aware that this will probably require real work on the part of the guardian/conservator, as you can't restrict it to "only likely abusive contracts."
P.S. While this will most likely not help your dad, please do report the company to your state AG. They only tend to find out about these problems through consumer complaints.
posted by praemunire at 12:01 PM on April 11 [9 favorites]
First off, a “no solicitors” sign is a must. Then teach him to say, “I never buy or sign anything at my front door.” We should all just say that. It’s just a personal rule we have, no offense, have a nice day also: see my no solicitors sign there.
posted by amanda at 12:16 PM on April 11 [11 favorites]
posted by amanda at 12:16 PM on April 11 [11 favorites]
I think you should definitely talk to an attorney. In the meantime, or possibly in addition to whatever the attorney recommends, would be feasible to install a smart camera or doorbell? One of the ones that you can talk through on your phone. You could set it up so that notifications come to you and/or your siblings, and if anyone tries to talk him into anything, you could be there in the conversation talking to your dad and the salesman.
I’ve always assumed “no soliciting” signs don’t work, but I’ve had at least one person tell me they actually help. Might be worth trying as well.
posted by sillysally at 12:20 PM on April 11 [7 favorites]
I’ve always assumed “no soliciting” signs don’t work, but I’ve had at least one person tell me they actually help. Might be worth trying as well.
posted by sillysally at 12:20 PM on April 11 [7 favorites]
Whether you are old and vulnerable or young and hearty, there's no reason to answer the door to somebody you don't know and aren't expecting. And 'don't answer the door' is a much simpler directive than trying to evaluate somebody's contract or whatever else you end up doing once you're already stuck in a completely unnecessary interaction. You don't owe people the time of day just because they showed up on your porch, and you don't even need a sign telling them to go away; you can just let them stand out there until they figure it out.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:45 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:45 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
I don't know what will help, but just wanted to add that people at the door aren't the only problem; I know someone with cognitive deficits who was convinced to make a big donation to a theoretically legit charity over the phone, and I try not to think about what scams and might-as-well-be-scams my grandparents encounter (they answer all their calls).
I think I'd second the recommendation for cameras, especially since there are scams that involve the scammer coming into the house (to "perform an inspection", do some "urgent repairs", "find a thief who might be hiding in the house", and so on).
posted by trig at 1:27 PM on April 11 [6 favorites]
I think I'd second the recommendation for cameras, especially since there are scams that involve the scammer coming into the house (to "perform an inspection", do some "urgent repairs", "find a thief who might be hiding in the house", and so on).
posted by trig at 1:27 PM on April 11 [6 favorites]
Door-to-Door scams are one thing, but for old folks, picking up any random call on the landline phone is even worse.
posted by ovvl at 4:44 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
posted by ovvl at 4:44 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
praemunire has it right about a conservatorship (IANYL) being the only way to remove his legal ability to enter into contracts.
posted by bluesky78987 at 5:32 PM on April 11
posted by bluesky78987 at 5:32 PM on April 11
This is one of those points where people often figure out that they need to talk to an elder law attorney. If this has happened once, you’ll likely find yourself trying to untangle more situations as time goes on. You’re going to need to get an honest assessment of his current physical and mental capabilities. If possible, you’ll need to find out his financial situation top to bottom. A family member went through this with our grandfather and it wasn’t fun. Get a consult with an elder law attorney because they know the steps you can or must take, and they also have a much better idea of where conservatorship/guardianship is warranted. I would get that consult as soon as you can because if you end up needing to stabilize his finances, time will be of the essence.
posted by azpenguin at 6:20 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
posted by azpenguin at 6:20 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
My deceased aunt, former financial controller, had multiple copies of a pre-printed form which said, "English is not my first language, so I will need to consider the terms of any contract or document in my own time and convenience. Please sign and provide your contact details."
After which, she would write and say that she did not wish to proceed, or if she thought there might be pushback, I had to write to say that she would not proceed.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 1:33 AM on April 12
After which, she would write and say that she did not wish to proceed, or if she thought there might be pushback, I had to write to say that she would not proceed.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 1:33 AM on April 12
I'm sorry to say this, but if we're talking about a person who doesn't remember signing a contract yesterday, any strategies like "teach him to say these words to people who knock/call" or "tell him to stop answering his phone or the door" are not going to stick. He doesn't have to have full-on dementia to be sufficiently cognitively compromised that conservatorship could be an appropriate step. I think that consultations with his primary doctor and an elder law attorney are the next steps here.
posted by spamloaf at 5:50 AM on April 12 [11 favorites]
posted by spamloaf at 5:50 AM on April 12 [11 favorites]
Scammers are so damn good at abusing elders. Where I am, pursuing action against them requires that a) the person who’s been scammed provides an affidavit to that effect (good luck if they don’t remember what happened, or if they believe the scammer) and b) at least near me, a certain value has been taken in one discrete instance. My local Vulnerable Persons police registry has scores of victims they can’t do anything about. Taken for huge sums too, just in dribs and drabs and fully unprosecutable ways.
In addition to speaking to a lawyer, I would recommend
- family members visit your dad multiple times a week, checking mail and any paper
- communicating with your dad’s bank manager - they may have safeguards for this situation (my dad’s was close to my brother so he’d just call him if anything looked fishy. I mean this was after things had gotten to a serious point. I digress)
- cameras. We use Wyze, you can review several days’ worth of footage.
It gets very hands on.
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:56 PM on April 12
In addition to speaking to a lawyer, I would recommend
- family members visit your dad multiple times a week, checking mail and any paper
- communicating with your dad’s bank manager - they may have safeguards for this situation (my dad’s was close to my brother so he’d just call him if anything looked fishy. I mean this was after things had gotten to a serious point. I digress)
- cameras. We use Wyze, you can review several days’ worth of footage.
It gets very hands on.
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:56 PM on April 12
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A conversation with a good elder law lawyer can help your family figure out the various options you have and determine which ones are right for your situation right now.
posted by brookeb at 11:30 AM on April 11 [8 favorites]