1st court appearance for 2 DUIs in one week. Go straight to jail?
April 7, 2024 10:31 PM Subscribe
My friend was arrested for drunk driving twice within a week with blood alcohol levels of .38 the first time and .40+ the second. He wasn't arrested or booked and taken straight to the hospital for medical detox. He hit 3 cars, a stop sign a fence and didn't stop for the police. He's facing four felonies for all that. Regardless, he never had to post bail and never even saw a police station. He is a clear danger to himself and others. Will he be arrested at his first court arraignment?
I know you aren't lawyers, and there are many "it depends" variables. His arraignment is this Wednesday. He can't afford a lawyer, and so has no guidance or anybody to tell him what to expect. His first offense alone is four felonies, with a second driving under the influence offense. He doesn't have any information about the second arrest a week later. We don't know what happened or what he was charged with that time. Both times, his BAC should have been deadly, and the prosecutor and judge will consider that an aggravating circumstance when they decide how to handle him.
I'm not concerned about his substance use or health at the moment. That's all clear and understood. He's heard it all a million times. He obviously has some serious problems and needs an incredible amount of help. Right now, we are trying to coach him and get him to his first court appearance. His family and I have no idea what to expect. This is heavy-duty stuff. Any reliable information I can find online is the same, "Talk to a lawyer" but he can't afford that.
He will be going to jail and possibly prison for a while eventually. (or maybe even a mental health institution). This is 1000% clear. He is so lucky to be alive and not have killed anybody.
We know that every state can be completely different, but with these offenses so close together, incredible levels of intoxication, and felony hit and run, and who knows what we don't know regarding arrest #2, I can't imagine there would be much difference between how any state would handle a person like him (it's Colorado). I'm 95% sure he's going to jail this week, no matter what he pleads. I'm feeling 100% sure institutionalization is what needs to happen as much as I hate to think it. He just got out of detox for a third time after his family found him at BAC .40+ a few days ago. He seems to be maintaining sobriety and his wits relatively well at the moment.
In your opinions or experiences, is he going to jail this week?
Anything else that we, as a friend and family, should be ready for as far as the legal situation and court appearance?
I know you aren't lawyers, and there are many "it depends" variables. His arraignment is this Wednesday. He can't afford a lawyer, and so has no guidance or anybody to tell him what to expect. His first offense alone is four felonies, with a second driving under the influence offense. He doesn't have any information about the second arrest a week later. We don't know what happened or what he was charged with that time. Both times, his BAC should have been deadly, and the prosecutor and judge will consider that an aggravating circumstance when they decide how to handle him.
I'm not concerned about his substance use or health at the moment. That's all clear and understood. He's heard it all a million times. He obviously has some serious problems and needs an incredible amount of help. Right now, we are trying to coach him and get him to his first court appearance. His family and I have no idea what to expect. This is heavy-duty stuff. Any reliable information I can find online is the same, "Talk to a lawyer" but he can't afford that.
He will be going to jail and possibly prison for a while eventually. (or maybe even a mental health institution). This is 1000% clear. He is so lucky to be alive and not have killed anybody.
We know that every state can be completely different, but with these offenses so close together, incredible levels of intoxication, and felony hit and run, and who knows what we don't know regarding arrest #2, I can't imagine there would be much difference between how any state would handle a person like him (it's Colorado). I'm 95% sure he's going to jail this week, no matter what he pleads. I'm feeling 100% sure institutionalization is what needs to happen as much as I hate to think it. He just got out of detox for a third time after his family found him at BAC .40+ a few days ago. He seems to be maintaining sobriety and his wits relatively well at the moment.
In your opinions or experiences, is he going to jail this week?
Anything else that we, as a friend and family, should be ready for as far as the legal situation and court appearance?
He will likely receive a public defender at his arraignment, or soon thereafter. That's part of the point of an arraignment.
He may or may not be taken into custody. That's almost impossible to say. I'm somewhat surprised he hasn't been taken, but traffic stuff, even DUIs, can be strange like that.
Be ready for this to possibly take a long time, and maybe nothing happening on the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, court date. Court can be laborious and many people aren't ready for the delays. This is also going to cost him a lot of money in fines, most likely. Good luck to you and your friend.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:53 AM on April 8 [4 favorites]
He may or may not be taken into custody. That's almost impossible to say. I'm somewhat surprised he hasn't been taken, but traffic stuff, even DUIs, can be strange like that.
Be ready for this to possibly take a long time, and maybe nothing happening on the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, court date. Court can be laborious and many people aren't ready for the delays. This is also going to cost him a lot of money in fines, most likely. Good luck to you and your friend.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:53 AM on April 8 [4 favorites]
Here in Wisconsin USA a high cash bail amount would (most likely) be set and he would go to jail if he could not post it. If he could post it, he would only go to jail if he’s caught violating its terms, notably drinking again because he will almost certainly be demanded to maintain absolute sobriety 24/7. He will also be entitled to a public defender or court-appointed attorney if he really cannot afford to hire his own. The Court will give him basic instructions on how to apply and grant a time period in which to do so. Also be aware this first court appearance - again, in WI in my experience - will last about 5 minutes. Very routine for the Court, but lots of information for your friend to absorb. He needs to try hard to pay attention, read his paperwork, and maybe take someone along to listen, too, like you do for important medical appointments.
(Court reporter for 20 years. I have seen hundreds of these. but NOT A LAWYER)
posted by probably not that Karen Blair at 5:57 AM on April 8 [9 favorites]
(Court reporter for 20 years. I have seen hundreds of these. but NOT A LAWYER)
posted by probably not that Karen Blair at 5:57 AM on April 8 [9 favorites]
(Honestly, it also could be over very quickly. Because traffic stuff goes faster than some court cases too - I know nothing of Colorado traffic court. Short answer is - it wildly depends.)
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:57 AM on April 8
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:57 AM on April 8
I know someone who got 2 DUIs in a week (but no felonies -no crash or anything) and they were arrested, required to post $1000 bond, and were required to put a breathalyzer thing on their car. which requires monthly monitoring visits.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:07 AM on April 8
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:07 AM on April 8
Not the lawyer of anyone involved here. It's a criminal offense. He'll be given a lawyer, probably five minutes before arraignment, and will get advice from them that will be state-specific and informed by practical experience and thus better than what he can get here even if the lawyer is as overworked as they usually are. He should come to court prepared to be taken into custody, just because it's always better to be prepared, but it's likely that bond will be set, so if he (or his family/friends) can arrange for it to be posted, he wouldn't have to go to jail, though he may be subject to other interim measures designed to keep him from driving. Given his history, it sounds like he will ignore these. For his own sake in any upcoming trial, and so that he doesn't kill anyone in the meantime, his loved ones, assuming they wish to stay involved in his life, would be well advised to take any measures possible to keep him off the streets. E.g., take away his car keys.
(The system is not going to arrange "institutionalization" for him. While someone with his extreme disregard for other people's lives probably should be off the streets until he gets treatment for his substance issues, jail won't improve his health, either (and in fact alcohol detox in jail could be dangerous for him). So this isn't going to solve the problem for your friend and his family, I'm afraid. You would think the pathway to involuntary treatment for someone who is very likely going to kill someone else or himself without it would be clear and established. It's not.)
posted by praemunire at 8:52 AM on April 8 [6 favorites]
(The system is not going to arrange "institutionalization" for him. While someone with his extreme disregard for other people's lives probably should be off the streets until he gets treatment for his substance issues, jail won't improve his health, either (and in fact alcohol detox in jail could be dangerous for him). So this isn't going to solve the problem for your friend and his family, I'm afraid. You would think the pathway to involuntary treatment for someone who is very likely going to kill someone else or himself without it would be clear and established. It's not.)
posted by praemunire at 8:52 AM on April 8 [6 favorites]
From a distance, it appears that high of a BAC in Colorado results in an 'Aggravated DUI' charge with a minimum of 10 days in jail - on just the first offense.
Pragmatically, there could be local practices or other diversion/intervention procedures that might mitigate that for the first offense, though it also appears that some of those options unavailable on an aggravated charge; and catching the second one immediately might also be disqualifying.
From FindLaw's page on Colorado's laws, aside from any jail term and probation, he appears to be looking at a lengthy license suspension or restriction period.
(That page also links to the statutes, and pages from the state legislature on the CO DUI laws and interlocks.)
It also appears he will be designated a 'persistent drunk driver' on the administrative (DMV) side, based on both the BAC and repeat. So whenever his license is reinstated, it appears an interlock will be required for the first two years, at least. And should be ordered to complete a longer 'DUI school' program (typically class sessions, group sessions, plus AA attendance). Though the odds of that being effective treatment on its own are low, however long the program imposed is.
If you want to know with any confidence what his charges and options will look like, both statutorily and practically, given how close in time the two arrests are you really need to talk to a Colorado DUI lawyer. Ideally, one in his locality.
Otherwise, you'll have to wait to hear what the public defender tells him.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:52 AM on April 8
Pragmatically, there could be local practices or other diversion/intervention procedures that might mitigate that for the first offense, though it also appears that some of those options unavailable on an aggravated charge; and catching the second one immediately might also be disqualifying.
From FindLaw's page on Colorado's laws, aside from any jail term and probation, he appears to be looking at a lengthy license suspension or restriction period.
(That page also links to the statutes, and pages from the state legislature on the CO DUI laws and interlocks.)
It also appears he will be designated a 'persistent drunk driver' on the administrative (DMV) side, based on both the BAC and repeat. So whenever his license is reinstated, it appears an interlock will be required for the first two years, at least. And should be ordered to complete a longer 'DUI school' program (typically class sessions, group sessions, plus AA attendance). Though the odds of that being effective treatment on its own are low, however long the program imposed is.
If you want to know with any confidence what his charges and options will look like, both statutorily and practically, given how close in time the two arrests are you really need to talk to a Colorado DUI lawyer. Ideally, one in his locality.
Otherwise, you'll have to wait to hear what the public defender tells him.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:52 AM on April 8
And that's just based on the DUI charges and his BAC -- without the hit and run (if the cars weren't parked), or fleeing from the police in the car. And any direct resistance he may have offered in being arrested and transported.
If I were his friend or family, I'd be less concerned with whether he's going to jail this week, and more with him going to prison a little while from now.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:01 AM on April 8 [1 favorite]
If I were his friend or family, I'd be less concerned with whether he's going to jail this week, and more with him going to prison a little while from now.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:01 AM on April 8 [1 favorite]
Unclear if he wants any support but I might focus on his potential medical needs right now - the legal stuff may be out of anyone's ability to impact right now given he is broke.
You said he is not drinking right now. Not clear to me how many days it has been. IF alert and oriented he can tell you if he's having any withdrawal symptoms. If so, he could consider a trip to an ER to to withdraw. It's not a great environment but they have medicines to prevent/treat seizures if he has them.
But the biggest thing I'd suggest is finding someone between now and Wednesday who prescribes injectable naltrexone (Brand name for the long acting injectable is Vivitrol). A lot of people are scared of medication because they have heard of Antabuse which makes people sick when they drink. Antabuse is not the standard of care. Naltrexone (and gabapentin) on the other hand are supported by evidence that they reduce cravings for many with alcohol use disorders.
So the gospel I would like to spread to all is for severe alcohol use disorder for folks on a constant loop of binging and detox, please consider medication. It's not a miracle, getting support (like 12 steps, therapy, or other social supports) is very useful to many. But medication is also very useful to many and should be offered much more widely.
Because your friend is about to go to jail, getting a new prescription for oral gabapentin or naltrexone may not be useful - jail medical services are terrible. But if he could get the injectable that could help his first few weeks be slightly less horrible.
If you can get your friend to a doctor I would literally print this and hand it to the doctor and ask for help.
posted by latkes at 3:00 PM on April 8 [2 favorites]
You said he is not drinking right now. Not clear to me how many days it has been. IF alert and oriented he can tell you if he's having any withdrawal symptoms. If so, he could consider a trip to an ER to to withdraw. It's not a great environment but they have medicines to prevent/treat seizures if he has them.
But the biggest thing I'd suggest is finding someone between now and Wednesday who prescribes injectable naltrexone (Brand name for the long acting injectable is Vivitrol). A lot of people are scared of medication because they have heard of Antabuse which makes people sick when they drink. Antabuse is not the standard of care. Naltrexone (and gabapentin) on the other hand are supported by evidence that they reduce cravings for many with alcohol use disorders.
So the gospel I would like to spread to all is for severe alcohol use disorder for folks on a constant loop of binging and detox, please consider medication. It's not a miracle, getting support (like 12 steps, therapy, or other social supports) is very useful to many. But medication is also very useful to many and should be offered much more widely.
Because your friend is about to go to jail, getting a new prescription for oral gabapentin or naltrexone may not be useful - jail medical services are terrible. But if he could get the injectable that could help his first few weeks be slightly less horrible.
If you can get your friend to a doctor I would literally print this and hand it to the doctor and ask for help.
posted by latkes at 3:00 PM on April 8 [2 favorites]
He can’t afford a lawyer, but that doesn’t mean he can’t talk to one. So call some tomorrow, you or him or do it together.
One generally doesn’t hire lawyer blindly. “Free consultation”. You tell them what you’re charged with, what the cops said you did, avoid saying “what actually happened”, not your lawyer yet, ask them what their brief outline of a plan would be, and pretend you’re listening to what their rates would be and ballpark estimates on total/time cost.
They will want him to sign something, ask what’s going to happen tomorrow, how can they make it better.
A conversation or two will give him some pretty good idea of what is about to happen near term.
You know he can’t afford them, you/he doesn’t need to mention that. Lawyer may probe for financial info, steer to trying to understand options.
posted by ixipkcams at 6:12 PM on April 8
One generally doesn’t hire lawyer blindly. “Free consultation”. You tell them what you’re charged with, what the cops said you did, avoid saying “what actually happened”, not your lawyer yet, ask them what their brief outline of a plan would be, and pretend you’re listening to what their rates would be and ballpark estimates on total/time cost.
They will want him to sign something, ask what’s going to happen tomorrow, how can they make it better.
A conversation or two will give him some pretty good idea of what is about to happen near term.
You know he can’t afford them, you/he doesn’t need to mention that. Lawyer may probe for financial info, steer to trying to understand options.
posted by ixipkcams at 6:12 PM on April 8
Uh, no, that’s not how it works. The information provided in an unpaid intake consultation will be just that: generalized information, plus an opportunity to provide the lawyer with enough information to make an offer of further representation.
“What will the plan be?” Obtain discovery and if justified make pretrial motions, negotiate with the ADA or the Judge on a plea under local customs. That’s the plan in every case.
Given the charges this person will get better representation from a public defender than a minimum cost private attorney.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:25 PM on April 8 [1 favorite]
“What will the plan be?” Obtain discovery and if justified make pretrial motions, negotiate with the ADA or the Judge on a plea under local customs. That’s the plan in every case.
Given the charges this person will get better representation from a public defender than a minimum cost private attorney.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:25 PM on April 8 [1 favorite]
“The information provided in an unpaid intake consultation will be just that: generalized information, plus an opportunity to provide the lawyer with enough information to make an offer of further representation.”
I don’t disagree about that or anything else. But this person has no idea what’s going to happen on Wednesday, so having couple of the performative calls will give them an idea about that…how that locale’s courts work. There will also be a bunch of bullshit about representation that they can ignore, but as for what will happen Wednesday, the question asked here, they can learn about that.
posted by ixipkcams at 8:14 PM on April 8
I don’t disagree about that or anything else. But this person has no idea what’s going to happen on Wednesday, so having couple of the performative calls will give them an idea about that…how that locale’s courts work. There will also be a bunch of bullshit about representation that they can ignore, but as for what will happen Wednesday, the question asked here, they can learn about that.
posted by ixipkcams at 8:14 PM on April 8
I am not the lawyer of anyone involved here. I am in criminal defense student practice for certain kinds of hearings, but not in your area. I am trying hard to be useful but not legal advice.
Getting a lawyer can mean getting him applied for the public defenders as soon as possible. In my area, once you are in custody, you are automatically eligible for a public defender, and it appears Colorado is similar, but getting the application in means someone is looking at it before it gets to court and before he is arrested. It also includes contact information. That might mean he has more than a five minute meeting in court.
What I think I can safely say is that it really does differ not only between every state but between every county in the state and every judge in the county. There are some judges in my county who won't give bond to DUI cases. There is one judge in the county who will give bond to DUI cases but not copper thieves. They really rule their own private fiefdoms. So you need a local attorney. You may not be able to get one on retainer, but you might be able to hire one for a one hour consult specifically on the process of arraignment, bond hearings, etc, and likely judicial outcomes in the county.
posted by corb at 9:05 PM on April 8
Getting a lawyer can mean getting him applied for the public defenders as soon as possible. In my area, once you are in custody, you are automatically eligible for a public defender, and it appears Colorado is similar, but getting the application in means someone is looking at it before it gets to court and before he is arrested. It also includes contact information. That might mean he has more than a five minute meeting in court.
What I think I can safely say is that it really does differ not only between every state but between every county in the state and every judge in the county. There are some judges in my county who won't give bond to DUI cases. There is one judge in the county who will give bond to DUI cases but not copper thieves. They really rule their own private fiefdoms. So you need a local attorney. You may not be able to get one on retainer, but you might be able to hire one for a one hour consult specifically on the process of arraignment, bond hearings, etc, and likely judicial outcomes in the county.
posted by corb at 9:05 PM on April 8
The standard “talk to a lawyer” line is still pertinent, because as corb said, things can vary just in one county. Every court has its quirks, its own procedures, and even though the law may spell something out clearly, the actual results in court may be different.
As far as helping your friend, the main points of coaching are this: do whatever the hell his attorney tells him to do (he will probably be appointed a public defender.) That’s the big one. As for actual legal consequences, this is my own advice, but I would let him work it out with the lawyer and courts and don’t offer any help aside from maybe transportation, meals, a couch to sleep on and general friend support. They need to face the consequences of what they did. It’s no guarantee, but typically for an addict to have any chance of breaking out of addiction, they have to have accountability. If people are going to help shield an addict from consequences related to their drinking/drug use, it’s going to repeat. Sorry if I sound harsh. I’ve seen addicts go through hell and have to face up to what they have done to others, and those are the ones that are more successful in beating addiction.
posted by azpenguin at 10:27 PM on April 8 [1 favorite]
As far as helping your friend, the main points of coaching are this: do whatever the hell his attorney tells him to do (he will probably be appointed a public defender.) That’s the big one. As for actual legal consequences, this is my own advice, but I would let him work it out with the lawyer and courts and don’t offer any help aside from maybe transportation, meals, a couch to sleep on and general friend support. They need to face the consequences of what they did. It’s no guarantee, but typically for an addict to have any chance of breaking out of addiction, they have to have accountability. If people are going to help shield an addict from consequences related to their drinking/drug use, it’s going to repeat. Sorry if I sound harsh. I’ve seen addicts go through hell and have to face up to what they have done to others, and those are the ones that are more successful in beating addiction.
posted by azpenguin at 10:27 PM on April 8 [1 favorite]
Now in jail support help, which isn't legal advice: most people who haven't been incarcerated don't understand they will not be able to keep their cellphone. As a lawyer-lite visiting clients in jail I can't even have my cellphone. This is a problem because most people these days don't often have numbers memorized. If your friend is a white man, he may have a vague idea in his head that the cops will just let him access his cellphone to get the numbers off it so he can make his phone calls. This is, shall we say, a very optimistic idea. There is a reason that people at protests write the support number on their arm in sharpie marker. I am not telling your friend what to do, but I do hope he has a solution for this.
posted by corb at 5:08 AM on April 9 [5 favorites]
posted by corb at 5:08 AM on April 9 [5 favorites]
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posted by plonkee at 1:45 AM on April 8 [6 favorites]