Should my building's property management company pay my deductible?
April 5, 2024 5:54 PM Subscribe
There was a massive flood in my apartment building. A pipe leading to the sprinkler system burst in the suite adjacent to me, resulting in two inches of water across my entire apartment. My insurance deductible is $1000. Since I am not at fault for this fiasco, shouldn't my building's insurance cover my deductible?
It's not like I negligently left the bathtub running and flooded the entire floor. I was literally asleep and woke to water pouring in from under the door to the building hallway. Also, it should be noted that this is the second time a flood has happened because of faulty pipes leading to the sprinklers; last time, it was the suite directly across from mine, so I have been massively affected by this twice in less than three years.
I am now living in a hotel until the repairs are done. My insurance company is saying that any money I might get as a rent rebate is going toward paying for my stay at the hotel and does not satisfy my deductible--I have to pay the deductible in addition to this, which seems weird to me. So I am in effect paying for my own hotel stay? That kind of defeats the purpose of insurance.
I am located in Vancouver, BC and my insurance is through Square One.
Any insights will be appreciated!
It's not like I negligently left the bathtub running and flooded the entire floor. I was literally asleep and woke to water pouring in from under the door to the building hallway. Also, it should be noted that this is the second time a flood has happened because of faulty pipes leading to the sprinklers; last time, it was the suite directly across from mine, so I have been massively affected by this twice in less than three years.
I am now living in a hotel until the repairs are done. My insurance company is saying that any money I might get as a rent rebate is going toward paying for my stay at the hotel and does not satisfy my deductible--I have to pay the deductible in addition to this, which seems weird to me. So I am in effect paying for my own hotel stay? That kind of defeats the purpose of insurance.
I am located in Vancouver, BC and my insurance is through Square One.
Any insights will be appreciated!
Rent or own? And if renting, is the whole building rental, or is it a strata? If renting, what does your landlord and their insurance say? If strata, the strata's insurance would have a role.
Any more details you can provide would help point you in the right direction.
posted by lookoutbelow at 8:21 PM on April 5
Any more details you can provide would help point you in the right direction.
posted by lookoutbelow at 8:21 PM on April 5
Response by poster: I am renting in a rental-only building. The landlords are refusing to communicate on this matter, so I have no idea if they're going through insurance or not; however, they're generally quite shady and like to cut corners, so they might be avoiding going through insurance, as they're having their internal repairman do the work, rather than a certified restoration company.
posted by figaro at 8:37 PM on April 5
posted by figaro at 8:37 PM on April 5
Renter's insurance in the US does not cover damage to the building due to your own negligence. It is for replacing your stuff that gets damaged by someone else's mistake. Also, when someone else is at fault for a loss, you may have to pay the deductible upfront but your insurance company will often go after the party at fault to reimburse them and you, so you get a refund on your deductible. This is called subrogation. If it works the same in Canada, you would need to have loss-of-use coverage to cover your hotel. That is what it is called when you have to stay somewhere else because your place is uninhabitable.
If you get a rebate on your rent for the unusable days, that isn't money you are paying, but money your landlord pays to you. That might be considered part of the settlement they negotiate with your landlord, if that happens. I'd push back on both landlord and insurance to make them refund your rent fully for the missed days and replace anything that was damaged. Don't take the first offer.
posted by soelo at 8:49 PM on April 5
If you get a rebate on your rent for the unusable days, that isn't money you are paying, but money your landlord pays to you. That might be considered part of the settlement they negotiate with your landlord, if that happens. I'd push back on both landlord and insurance to make them refund your rent fully for the missed days and replace anything that was damaged. Don't take the first offer.
posted by soelo at 8:49 PM on April 5
Oh I'm really sorry...even though you said apartment I somehow completely overlooked that and assumed you were in a condo. I am even less qualified to answer than I portrayed myself as. I apologize. From a completely unqualified to answer perspective, though, if you end up paying for this either directly or through increased insurance premiums, that's just total bullshit. This is not a legal opinion, just a justice opinion.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:49 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:49 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
You purchased insurance just for situations like this. Your landlords didnt pay your premiums so they will not be liable for deductible. On the bright side if you didnt have insurance you would be out of a place to live..
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 10:26 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 10:26 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]
Your landlord or their insurance is definitely responsible for any damage the building, your property, and the hotel stay. If they are being shady in communicating with you about this, I think it is worth escalating the issue and contacting a lawyer, especially one who often represents tenants. With the hotel issue, it may be the property management company or it may be the owner of the building's insurance that needs to pay for your hotel stay. Regardless, it is not you.
I think your landlord and/or PM will respond much more promptly to a letter from a lawyer than they have to you.
posted by Summers at 4:15 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
I think your landlord and/or PM will respond much more promptly to a letter from a lawyer than they have to you.
posted by Summers at 4:15 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
Have you contacted your insurer to get some guidance? That’s where I would start. They will explain what your coverage is in this situation, and how to proceed. You will probably be better off if you get your insurer involved, as they will have the muscle to get things resolved properly.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:31 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 4:31 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
https://hardbacon.ca/en/insurance/renters-insurance/
https://www.koho.ca/learn/do-you-need-renters-insurance-in-canada/
These pages talk about what renter's insurance covers. Your landlord is not responsible for your belongings being damaged.
posted by soelo at 5:46 AM on April 6
https://www.koho.ca/learn/do-you-need-renters-insurance-in-canada/
These pages talk about what renter's insurance covers. Your landlord is not responsible for your belongings being damaged.
posted by soelo at 5:46 AM on April 6
If it happened inside the walls, it’s 100% on the landlord to pay to fix any damages to your property. If the apartment is uninhabitable for some period of time and you have to live in a hotel, the landlord has to pay for that too. In fact, the landlord should straight up be paying for the hotel rather than reimbursing you. This is worth lawyering up for if the landlord is refusing to communicate clearly.
posted by slkinsey at 6:12 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]
posted by slkinsey at 6:12 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]
The only role your insurance plays is assisting you in getting the landlord's insurance to reimburse you to make everything right. IANAL, but I think they're fully responsible. What a mess, so sorry this happened to you. I don't see anyone here asserting that they're a lawyer with landlord/tenant and insurance expertise, so talk to the local tenant rights organization. You may be able to get help from your state's insurance commission to answer questions. You may need a lawyer. .
posted by theora55 at 10:15 AM on April 6
posted by theora55 at 10:15 AM on April 6
Call your insurance company.
Sometimes an insurance company will pay your claim then subrogate the claim to the other party’s insurance. This happened to me in a car crash in a different place. Once the claim subrogation went through my deductible was refunded.
posted by shock muppet at 4:04 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
Sometimes an insurance company will pay your claim then subrogate the claim to the other party’s insurance. This happened to me in a car crash in a different place. Once the claim subrogation went through my deductible was refunded.
posted by shock muppet at 4:04 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
Your insurance is paying the claim. Near as I can tell, in full w/o reservation. You should be thanking them, no pita stuff near as I can tell. You’re upset the terms of your insurance has a $1k deductible. Yeah, bummer, but is what it is.
So why are you mad at your insurance company?
Absolutely not your fault, be mad at the building owner’s shit maintainence. That $1k out of pocket expense you have is on them. A much bigger process if you wish to pursue…and the terms of your lease may say you can’t. Your insurance company is also going to be looking to get their money back and will subrogate against the building owners insurance, and if they recover in full, will refund your deductible, but that may take a year or more.
I understand it’s a shit situation, but honestly, looks like your insurance company is doing right by you.
posted by ixipkcams at 11:56 PM on April 6
So why are you mad at your insurance company?
Absolutely not your fault, be mad at the building owner’s shit maintainence. That $1k out of pocket expense you have is on them. A much bigger process if you wish to pursue…and the terms of your lease may say you can’t. Your insurance company is also going to be looking to get their money back and will subrogate against the building owners insurance, and if they recover in full, will refund your deductible, but that may take a year or more.
I understand it’s a shit situation, but honestly, looks like your insurance company is doing right by you.
posted by ixipkcams at 11:56 PM on April 6
I am a BC lawyer, though not your lawyer and this is not legal advice.
You've got two legal relationships you're directly a part of: you and your insurer, and you and your landlord.
Your landlord must have property insurance, so there's that also. But what they do with their insurer generally doesn't affect their obligations to you. That's, generally speaking, a matter of tenancy law.
Residential tenancy laws are defined in the Residential Tenancy Act. There are numerous resources for educating landlords and tenants, and helping with dispute resolution. My usual go to for tenants to look at is TRAC, which has simple presentations of information: https://tenants.bc.ca/. Another very useful aspect of TRAC's website is that they have form letters you can fill in and send to your landlord, which if necessary you can use to build a case for dispute resolution. TRAC also have a phone service of some kind. But the Residential Tenancy Branch also has detailed information on their website: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies. Where you can't find answers on those, you can also try this manual: https://www.clicklaw.bc.ca/resource/1731.
I'll link a couple relevant pages which may apply, if I think of more I'll come back:
- if you have to demand repairs that they didn't do
- loss of the right of quiet enjoyment of the property and damages for it
- Residential Tenancy Policy Guideline 6:
"A tenant may be entitled to compensation for loss of use of a portion of the property that constitutes loss of quiet enjoyment even if the landlord has made reasonable efforts to minimize disruption to the tenant in making repairs or completing renovations."
- there's some general info from the 2021 floods here, but bear in mind that this is describing situations where neither the landlord or tenant is at fault. Where the landlord is negligent and that causes damages, you may be entitled to more than is described there.
It might be worth calling the RTB as it's a reasonably common situation and they might be able to point you in the right direction. Same with TRAC.
If you are put to expenses due to this, you may be entitled to claim damages for them through RTB dispute resolution. They're somewhat faster and more effective than they used to be, and their online information is reasonably good. See also the policy guideline on compensation for damage or loss.
Bear in mind that you normally can't get double compensation - if your insurance pays for something, you generally also can't get compensation for it from your landlord. There's a legal concept called "subrogation", where an insurance company that pays for damages can make claims on your behalf against a negligent party that caused those damages. I would keep lines of communication with your insurer open if you're thinking of pursuing your landlord for the deductible through the RTB.
You may be entitled to withhold rent, but it's a complicated matter and I'd review reliable info carefully before doing it and communicate clearly in writing. See this page on communication during a tenancy.
I'm assuming you want to remain in the unit and the landlord isn't claiming that the tenancy is frustrated due to this situation. If you don't want to, you may have some rights to end the tenancy with less notice. Again please check reliable info about this. See RTB Policy Guideline on Frustration.
I know that's a lot of stuff! On my phone so excuse the formatting. Basically, I'd document everything, for example by emailing yourself, keep communicating with your insurance, and keep asking your landlord to compensate you for out of pocket expenses or otherwise to make the property liveable again. While I can't comment on your issue specifically, you may have claims that you can pursue through RTB dispute resolution for your expenses, and if it became necessary, for orders that your landlord perform specific repairs. Phoning TRAC and the RTB might help point you in the right direction.
posted by lookoutbelow at 4:08 PM on April 9
You've got two legal relationships you're directly a part of: you and your insurer, and you and your landlord.
Your landlord must have property insurance, so there's that also. But what they do with their insurer generally doesn't affect their obligations to you. That's, generally speaking, a matter of tenancy law.
Residential tenancy laws are defined in the Residential Tenancy Act. There are numerous resources for educating landlords and tenants, and helping with dispute resolution. My usual go to for tenants to look at is TRAC, which has simple presentations of information: https://tenants.bc.ca/. Another very useful aspect of TRAC's website is that they have form letters you can fill in and send to your landlord, which if necessary you can use to build a case for dispute resolution. TRAC also have a phone service of some kind. But the Residential Tenancy Branch also has detailed information on their website: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies. Where you can't find answers on those, you can also try this manual: https://www.clicklaw.bc.ca/resource/1731.
I'll link a couple relevant pages which may apply, if I think of more I'll come back:
- if you have to demand repairs that they didn't do
- loss of the right of quiet enjoyment of the property and damages for it
- Residential Tenancy Policy Guideline 6:
"A tenant may be entitled to compensation for loss of use of a portion of the property that constitutes loss of quiet enjoyment even if the landlord has made reasonable efforts to minimize disruption to the tenant in making repairs or completing renovations."
- there's some general info from the 2021 floods here, but bear in mind that this is describing situations where neither the landlord or tenant is at fault. Where the landlord is negligent and that causes damages, you may be entitled to more than is described there.
It might be worth calling the RTB as it's a reasonably common situation and they might be able to point you in the right direction. Same with TRAC.
If you are put to expenses due to this, you may be entitled to claim damages for them through RTB dispute resolution. They're somewhat faster and more effective than they used to be, and their online information is reasonably good. See also the policy guideline on compensation for damage or loss.
Bear in mind that you normally can't get double compensation - if your insurance pays for something, you generally also can't get compensation for it from your landlord. There's a legal concept called "subrogation", where an insurance company that pays for damages can make claims on your behalf against a negligent party that caused those damages. I would keep lines of communication with your insurer open if you're thinking of pursuing your landlord for the deductible through the RTB.
You may be entitled to withhold rent, but it's a complicated matter and I'd review reliable info carefully before doing it and communicate clearly in writing. See this page on communication during a tenancy.
I'm assuming you want to remain in the unit and the landlord isn't claiming that the tenancy is frustrated due to this situation. If you don't want to, you may have some rights to end the tenancy with less notice. Again please check reliable info about this. See RTB Policy Guideline on Frustration.
I know that's a lot of stuff! On my phone so excuse the formatting. Basically, I'd document everything, for example by emailing yourself, keep communicating with your insurance, and keep asking your landlord to compensate you for out of pocket expenses or otherwise to make the property liveable again. While I can't comment on your issue specifically, you may have claims that you can pursue through RTB dispute resolution for your expenses, and if it became necessary, for orders that your landlord perform specific repairs. Phoning TRAC and the RTB might help point you in the right direction.
posted by lookoutbelow at 4:08 PM on April 9
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posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:58 PM on April 5 [1 favorite]