Advice for understanding toxic air risks near child's school?
February 24, 2024 4:22 PM Subscribe
My child’s kindergarten is within 7 miles of a landfill fire causing serious air pollution.
I’m looking for effective actions and essential resources to understand the risks to my child.
I'm concerned about the potential health risks associated with exposure to the toxic air (e.g., cancer-causing benzene) resulting from a landfill fire.
My question is focused on the individual level, particularly as a parent, understanding whether there are specific actions to minimize exposure or health checks to consider.
I'm already aware of several class action lawsuits and petitions, and several agencies (e.g., EPA, AQMD) are already aware, investigating, and monitoring.
(Recent LA Times story: A fire burning deep inside an L.A. County landfill is raising new alarms over toxic air)
I'm concerned about the potential health risks associated with exposure to the toxic air (e.g., cancer-causing benzene) resulting from a landfill fire.
My question is focused on the individual level, particularly as a parent, understanding whether there are specific actions to minimize exposure or health checks to consider.
I'm already aware of several class action lawsuits and petitions, and several agencies (e.g., EPA, AQMD) are already aware, investigating, and monitoring.
(Recent LA Times story: A fire burning deep inside an L.A. County landfill is raising new alarms over toxic air)
Best answer: A few months ago I wrote an answer to a similar question asked by cotton dress sock, and in doing so learned quite a bit about air pollution from industrial sources that I hadn't quite realized or understood before. So I think if you read that answer and follow some of the links there, it will give you some decent context.
That article gives you frustratingly few details to go - such as the actual levels of benzene and other chemicals detected. But as a guess, this is probably putting out pollutants somewhere in the same general ballpark as the oil refineries I discussed in that response. See details on their emission for example here and here. The fact that neighbors 1.5-2.5 miles away are complaining about the smell backs this up. That is roughly the same radius as the main problem area in the (relatively high-polluting) Canadian oil refineries.
Note that U.S. refineries are significantly cleaner than the Canadian refineries, and significantly cleaner than they were 10 or 20 or 30 years ago. 30 years ago, we could smell our local oil refinery whenever you got within a mile or two of it. Now you can't really smell anything even with a quarter mile.
Benzene is a VOC (volatile organic compound) and VOCs are a big part of what you smell at an oil refinery, or in gasoline, or in paint, paint thinner, and similar solvents.
VOCs are (probably!) also a big part of what people are smelling from the landfill fire. They are smelly. Also, they are VERY toxic in high concentrations, and cause birth defects among many other things.
On the flip side, everyone is exposed to VOCs, including benzene, every day of the week. Smokers and those exposed to 2nd hand smoke see levels several times the average. When you go to the gas station you'll get some. Indoors generally has higher levels than outdoors - because outgassing from paint, adhesives, rugs, plastics, etc etc etc includes VOCs.
So when you are talking about exposure to benzene or other VOCs, it is not an all or nothing thing. You're thinking about things like how much is a typical daily exposure, how much higher is the exposure due to this new source, how long and intense is the additional exposure, and so on.
As I outlined in the linked article, if I lived (or had a child going to school) 7-8 miles from such a facility I would have a degree of concern and I would be pushing for the problem to be cleaned up. This would probably rise to the level of writing several letters to public officials and agencies, maybe calling my elected officials, keeping abreast of the issue, and so on.
But I doubt I would be actually moving or pulling out of there. I might be contacting the school to see if they have thought about the issue or instituted monitoring. BUT: At the distance of 7-8 miles there is a VERY high likelihood that the benzene and general VOC levels are higher inside the school than outside in the schoolyard. Kids who stand next to an idling school bus - or worse, go inside the bus (plastics, adhesives, foam, as well as engine emissions) - probably receive more VOCs than they do from the distant landfill.
So I'd be more than a little worried that the school district might "react" by keeping kids indoors away from the landfill air pollution - but by doing so, actually be exposing them to HIGHER not lower levels of VOCs.
If you look at the studies quoted in my answer about Canadian oil refineries, you'll see there are notable health issues for people living 1-2 miles from the plant, lesser but still noticeable 3-4-5 miles from the plant. But by the time you are 7-8 miles from the plant there is little to nothing in terms of measurable health impacts at the population level.
On the other hand, if I were living 1.5-2.5 miles away like the people in Val Verde, I would absolutely be freaking out about this. At that distance there are very definite and measurable health impacts from something like an oil refinery. If I could smell similar stuff from this, I would assume it is at least that bad unless and until proven otherwise. A place like that probably has cleaner air than most places around LA under normal circumstances - probably one reason people move there. And now it's going to be well worse than average.
They need to monitor levels - both at the source and at nearby population centers like Val Verde - release the data publicly, make sure the public is aware of the data, whether it is getting better or worse, and so on. And they need to fix the problem at the source now.
California has an extensive network of air quality monitors and what do you know - one of the stations in Val Verde currently has the very highest pollution index of any station in the greater LA area. It's at 152 while most other stations throughout the region are more like 30-50. A couple of the other stations in the Val Verde area are also quite high. This the kind of thing I would expect, being close to a source of pollution like this.
Flip side, stations 7-8 miles away all look perfectly normal. This is also what I would expect.
posted by flug at 8:37 PM on February 24 [5 favorites]
That article gives you frustratingly few details to go - such as the actual levels of benzene and other chemicals detected. But as a guess, this is probably putting out pollutants somewhere in the same general ballpark as the oil refineries I discussed in that response. See details on their emission for example here and here. The fact that neighbors 1.5-2.5 miles away are complaining about the smell backs this up. That is roughly the same radius as the main problem area in the (relatively high-polluting) Canadian oil refineries.
Note that U.S. refineries are significantly cleaner than the Canadian refineries, and significantly cleaner than they were 10 or 20 or 30 years ago. 30 years ago, we could smell our local oil refinery whenever you got within a mile or two of it. Now you can't really smell anything even with a quarter mile.
Benzene is a VOC (volatile organic compound) and VOCs are a big part of what you smell at an oil refinery, or in gasoline, or in paint, paint thinner, and similar solvents.
VOCs are (probably!) also a big part of what people are smelling from the landfill fire. They are smelly. Also, they are VERY toxic in high concentrations, and cause birth defects among many other things.
On the flip side, everyone is exposed to VOCs, including benzene, every day of the week. Smokers and those exposed to 2nd hand smoke see levels several times the average. When you go to the gas station you'll get some. Indoors generally has higher levels than outdoors - because outgassing from paint, adhesives, rugs, plastics, etc etc etc includes VOCs.
So when you are talking about exposure to benzene or other VOCs, it is not an all or nothing thing. You're thinking about things like how much is a typical daily exposure, how much higher is the exposure due to this new source, how long and intense is the additional exposure, and so on.
As I outlined in the linked article, if I lived (or had a child going to school) 7-8 miles from such a facility I would have a degree of concern and I would be pushing for the problem to be cleaned up. This would probably rise to the level of writing several letters to public officials and agencies, maybe calling my elected officials, keeping abreast of the issue, and so on.
But I doubt I would be actually moving or pulling out of there. I might be contacting the school to see if they have thought about the issue or instituted monitoring. BUT: At the distance of 7-8 miles there is a VERY high likelihood that the benzene and general VOC levels are higher inside the school than outside in the schoolyard. Kids who stand next to an idling school bus - or worse, go inside the bus (plastics, adhesives, foam, as well as engine emissions) - probably receive more VOCs than they do from the distant landfill.
So I'd be more than a little worried that the school district might "react" by keeping kids indoors away from the landfill air pollution - but by doing so, actually be exposing them to HIGHER not lower levels of VOCs.
If you look at the studies quoted in my answer about Canadian oil refineries, you'll see there are notable health issues for people living 1-2 miles from the plant, lesser but still noticeable 3-4-5 miles from the plant. But by the time you are 7-8 miles from the plant there is little to nothing in terms of measurable health impacts at the population level.
On the other hand, if I were living 1.5-2.5 miles away like the people in Val Verde, I would absolutely be freaking out about this. At that distance there are very definite and measurable health impacts from something like an oil refinery. If I could smell similar stuff from this, I would assume it is at least that bad unless and until proven otherwise. A place like that probably has cleaner air than most places around LA under normal circumstances - probably one reason people move there. And now it's going to be well worse than average.
They need to monitor levels - both at the source and at nearby population centers like Val Verde - release the data publicly, make sure the public is aware of the data, whether it is getting better or worse, and so on. And they need to fix the problem at the source now.
California has an extensive network of air quality monitors and what do you know - one of the stations in Val Verde currently has the very highest pollution index of any station in the greater LA area. It's at 152 while most other stations throughout the region are more like 30-50. A couple of the other stations in the Val Verde area are also quite high. This the kind of thing I would expect, being close to a source of pollution like this.
Flip side, stations 7-8 miles away all look perfectly normal. This is also what I would expect.
posted by flug at 8:37 PM on February 24 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: flug: What a tour de force answer! Thank you for the thorough, thoughtful answer.
One followup: It turns out our school is 4.35 absolute miles from the landfill, and the wind occasionally sends the toxic air to the school. (Teachers today confirmed smelling it in the air the last 2-3 weeks.)
What actions would you take given the moderate level of risk?
posted by shrimpetouffee at 2:12 PM on February 26
One followup: It turns out our school is 4.35 absolute miles from the landfill, and the wind occasionally sends the toxic air to the school. (Teachers today confirmed smelling it in the air the last 2-3 weeks.)
What actions would you take given the moderate level of risk?
posted by shrimpetouffee at 2:12 PM on February 26
Best answer: > It turns out our school is 4.35 absolute miles from the landfill, and the wind occasionally sends the toxic air to the school. (Teachers today confirmed smelling it in the air the last 2-3 weeks.)
Hmm, yeah, in my mind that does turn it up a notch. I don't know if in my mind that would turn it up to "get kid out of there now". I certainly would however lend a strong urgency to messages to elected officials etc. My message would be something like, "Look, teachers and students at the school are smelling it X times per week (or often throughout the week, or whatever it is). We know that if there is a detectable smell there are also detectable toxins in the air. So our children are being exposed to toxins $X times per week. We need to stop this now, today, and I need to know right now what you are doing to stop this."
That type of thing.
Similarly I would be getting together with other parents to talk to the superintendent, principal, school board, etc about the fact that there is ongoing toxic exposure going on multiple times a week and what is their plan right now to deal with this.
FYI it looks like air purifiers with charcoal filters can make a decent dent in VOC levels (plus as a bonus, airborne viruses, particulates, and such). So putting such an air purifier in every room in the school by, say, next Monday would be a good start.
(And as a parent I wouldn't mind pushing for this as a general thing because one thing we learned from the pandemic is the value of good air filtration in places with concentrations of people. Filters can slow down Covid a lot, but also flu, colds, etc etc etc. And indoor air pollution is nothing to sneeze at either. Filtration will very likely more than pay for itself just in the number of sick days eliminated.)
Also, measurement of pollution levels - e.g. at the school, even inside classrooms, and with results published quickly publicly - is good thing but once you are SMELLING it at the school you are really beyond needing that to prove the need for remedies. If you are smelling something, it is either VOCs or particulates or (most likely) a combination of both, at levels that are well above acceptable.
This problem can be pretty much solved within the school by room air filtration so it in my mind it would be a really hard thing for a school board to say no to if a critical mass of parents are demanding it.
posted by flug at 1:28 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
Hmm, yeah, in my mind that does turn it up a notch. I don't know if in my mind that would turn it up to "get kid out of there now". I certainly would however lend a strong urgency to messages to elected officials etc. My message would be something like, "Look, teachers and students at the school are smelling it X times per week (or often throughout the week, or whatever it is). We know that if there is a detectable smell there are also detectable toxins in the air. So our children are being exposed to toxins $X times per week. We need to stop this now, today, and I need to know right now what you are doing to stop this."
That type of thing.
Similarly I would be getting together with other parents to talk to the superintendent, principal, school board, etc about the fact that there is ongoing toxic exposure going on multiple times a week and what is their plan right now to deal with this.
FYI it looks like air purifiers with charcoal filters can make a decent dent in VOC levels (plus as a bonus, airborne viruses, particulates, and such). So putting such an air purifier in every room in the school by, say, next Monday would be a good start.
(And as a parent I wouldn't mind pushing for this as a general thing because one thing we learned from the pandemic is the value of good air filtration in places with concentrations of people. Filters can slow down Covid a lot, but also flu, colds, etc etc etc. And indoor air pollution is nothing to sneeze at either. Filtration will very likely more than pay for itself just in the number of sick days eliminated.)
Also, measurement of pollution levels - e.g. at the school, even inside classrooms, and with results published quickly publicly - is good thing but once you are SMELLING it at the school you are really beyond needing that to prove the need for remedies. If you are smelling something, it is either VOCs or particulates or (most likely) a combination of both, at levels that are well above acceptable.
This problem can be pretty much solved within the school by room air filtration so it in my mind it would be a really hard thing for a school board to say no to if a critical mass of parents are demanding it.
posted by flug at 1:28 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Three other thoughts:
#1. You can show people (elected officials, school board members) the studies I linked earlier from Canada showing direct health impacts for people at these same distances from oil refineries (which, you can point it, is the same type of pollution as you are experiencing) to make that point that this isn't just some vague "might be a problem" situation. Pollution at these levels has definite, measurable, negative health impacts.
#2. With the school I would be talking in terms of, as parents we don't want to pull our kids out of school but when they are being exposed to actual high levels of toxic substances when they attend school, we have to think about pulling them out of the school until the situation is resolved. We don't want to, but as parents we feel like we have to. Because it's toxic. If they hear from a bunch of parents with the "going to have to pull the kids out of this school until this is resolved" message I guarantee this will get their attention. Because every kid who doesn't attend school for one day is money straight out of their budget.
#3. Another thing I would be doing is getting the media up to the school to, hopefully, smell the problem themselves but, either way, talk to people who are smelling the problem at the school on a regular basis. If the school won't let teachers talk to the media, then get some parents, students, etc who have spent enough time at the school to be able to report on the smells, and who are willing to talk on camera. Be sure to make the connection between the smell and the health impact. "The smell is bad, but it's not just a question of the smell. These are toxic substances that have measurable health impacts and if we can smell them, we know the levels are way too high for the safety of these kids."
You can show the media the monitoring stations as well. That was honestly pretty alarming to me sitting here a couple thousand miles away. When you see those yellow and red measurements flashing around the area, you know that is basically clouds of toxic stuff floating around. Yes, it's not quite at the level of mustard gas or ricin - the type of thing that will kill you dead quickly. But these are known toxins with known health impacts that we have spent billions of dollars and decades removing from our air because we know they are bad for people and especially kids. And you can literally see clouds of the stuff floating around, in real time, on these monitors.
It makes for a pretty good visual of the type communicates the problem well, and that media likes.
And as a p.s., if I were living in those close-in neighborhoods, certainly 1-2 miles but even 3-5 miles, I would be talking in terms of they need to be providing every residence and building here with these air filters. If they can solve the problem by like Monday, OK. If not, air filter in every room to get us through the thing.
(And knowing how slow govt works, I would be going down to the store to buy my own air filter like right now. And that is maybe a solution at the school, too - if parents buy an effective air filter for the kids' classroom, will the administration let you install it in the classroom?)
posted by flug at 1:45 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
#1. You can show people (elected officials, school board members) the studies I linked earlier from Canada showing direct health impacts for people at these same distances from oil refineries (which, you can point it, is the same type of pollution as you are experiencing) to make that point that this isn't just some vague "might be a problem" situation. Pollution at these levels has definite, measurable, negative health impacts.
#2. With the school I would be talking in terms of, as parents we don't want to pull our kids out of school but when they are being exposed to actual high levels of toxic substances when they attend school, we have to think about pulling them out of the school until the situation is resolved. We don't want to, but as parents we feel like we have to. Because it's toxic. If they hear from a bunch of parents with the "going to have to pull the kids out of this school until this is resolved" message I guarantee this will get their attention. Because every kid who doesn't attend school for one day is money straight out of their budget.
#3. Another thing I would be doing is getting the media up to the school to, hopefully, smell the problem themselves but, either way, talk to people who are smelling the problem at the school on a regular basis. If the school won't let teachers talk to the media, then get some parents, students, etc who have spent enough time at the school to be able to report on the smells, and who are willing to talk on camera. Be sure to make the connection between the smell and the health impact. "The smell is bad, but it's not just a question of the smell. These are toxic substances that have measurable health impacts and if we can smell them, we know the levels are way too high for the safety of these kids."
You can show the media the monitoring stations as well. That was honestly pretty alarming to me sitting here a couple thousand miles away. When you see those yellow and red measurements flashing around the area, you know that is basically clouds of toxic stuff floating around. Yes, it's not quite at the level of mustard gas or ricin - the type of thing that will kill you dead quickly. But these are known toxins with known health impacts that we have spent billions of dollars and decades removing from our air because we know they are bad for people and especially kids. And you can literally see clouds of the stuff floating around, in real time, on these monitors.
It makes for a pretty good visual of the type communicates the problem well, and that media likes.
And as a p.s., if I were living in those close-in neighborhoods, certainly 1-2 miles but even 3-5 miles, I would be talking in terms of they need to be providing every residence and building here with these air filters. If they can solve the problem by like Monday, OK. If not, air filter in every room to get us through the thing.
(And knowing how slow govt works, I would be going down to the store to buy my own air filter like right now. And that is maybe a solution at the school, too - if parents buy an effective air filter for the kids' classroom, will the administration let you install it in the classroom?)
posted by flug at 1:45 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]
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posted by slidell at 8:20 PM on February 24